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thank god, and helped to become a physical symbol of that movement. trayvon and emmitt till, different matters, but lost their lives and the fact that the value of their lives seemed to be brought down to nothing is what made them very similar in the reactions. thank you for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. hillary's ahead of schedule but who is driving the bus? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. in the news tonight, hillary clinton way ahead of schedule. suddenly it's as if she's the next president, even if barack obama is still president. but wait. wait a minute. it wasn't supposed to be like this. the hillary bandwagon wasn't set to rumble till after the 2014
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elections, till the hillary forces were fully organized and ready to make their kick. why suddenly does it feel like she's in the driver's seat? well, people are either positioning themselves already for a role in hillary's government or acting to lock in positions they have with either her or the few people she would give authority to hire for her. why does it feel like the train has already left the station? what does this mean for the other side? if the republicans are also looking for jobs in 2016 and need to win to get those jobs, if they see her on the move already, does that mean they're more likely to push a candidate who actually has a good chance of boxing her out for the center? those people in the middle politically? in other words, new jersey governor chris christie. does this help give him a leg up? speaking of boxing out, is that what the earlier than expected coming of hillary is doing to president obama? he's still in the inaugural term of his second term. is he getting brushed aside from the rush for jobs and
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connections to a president who has yet to take office and might never take office? who is to blame for all the hilary action right now? a foo feisty crowd pushing her? a media, okay, i'm part of it, looking hungry for the next big story or is it the president in the oval office? is the reason hillary's getting all this attention, the reason the former secretary of state is getting the big buildup because the man in the white house and the fire and excitement for action with three years to get things done is so dimly lit right now? "the washington post" chris cillizza is an msnbc political analyst and amy davidson is senior editor for the beautiful, well written, "new yorker" magazine. i want to start with chris. great column in the post, "the washington post" about sort of the oil and water aspect of what's his name, rand paul who's name i'll learn to say more quickly and chris christie. they don't have nothing in common. it's like that movie "the candidate. "
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we ain't got nothing in common. let's talk about the dems. >> sure. >> the democratic party used to be the party where all the fight was. there was a fight between left and right -- civil rights, anti-civil rights, the old seggies hanging in there. now it seems to be a party of sort of a general agreement. sort of the same party. but i noticed something over the weekend. the slow, what do you call it, the thing where you change color to meet the background, the fitting in thing of the animal. >> chameleon. >> the chameleon party seems to be changing color to a hillary background rather than an obama background. i know you are reporting on the phone all day must be hearing this. >> well, you know, what you hit on in the intro, chris, is right, which is i will say i am struck by how aggressive and how public she herself is being with this series of speeches. she's given one, going to give two more on sort of big topics, voting rights, foreign policy. talk about national security. there's no way to interpret those kind of speeches except
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that laying the groundwork for 2016. i'll add one other quick thing to it which is the ready for hillary super pac, the extent to which real clinton hands, i'm not talking about sort of lower level operatives, herald ickes, huge fund-raisers, huge factor in the clinton world, he is affiliated with it. some of the obama folks, jeremy bird and mitch stewart very involved in the obama field organization are affiliated with it. i guarantee you if hillary clinton or someone in her world said to harold ickes don't get involved with this right now, it's going to spur this thing out of control, we don't want it to start yet, harold would not be involved yet. so there's both -- >> you're so right. people are so talking, the old joke is are they measuring the drapes. let's be more practical. they're all talking about who should be chief of staff. i was pushing ed rendell. they're already doing the deck chairs. this is 2013. it's the first year of obama's
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second term and they're already talking about hillary and who is going to do what. are we ahead of schedule on purpose or is this sheer accident? have they blown it by getting out too fast or is it just smart to keep biden out of the race? >> i don't think it's an accident. you have to look at where she's coming from. she came from a highly visible role as secretary of state. i'm not sure she knows how not to be visible at this stage in her life after all of the places she's been and the way she's been doing it. what's really interesting in terms of obama's visibility is that even as her secretary of stateship seems more and more now about having been about her and about her stature and less and less about really crystallizing an obama agenda, and so now his foreign policy fields really a little vacant, especially in the face of the crisis in egypt and the nsa. >> i think john kerry is doing a hell of a job bringing together the middle east because hillary hadn't done that.
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in all fairness to him, he's done what she hadn't yet done. that's the fact. >> it's true. look at her luck in a way. she left the secretary of stateship before she had to deal with questions like edward snowden's passport or the crisis in egypt. now it really can be about her and about her candidacy. >> the "new york times," amy, now has a reporter, a desk editor whose entire job at "the new york times" cillizza back to you, your competition is in the "new york times," there's an editor, this woman has been assigned the job of hillary editor. that's how close it's gotten. >> look, chris, people always say to me, because i write a lot about this stuff unapologetically so, people always say it's too early. if you think that no one who is thinking about running for president makes their decision till after the 2014 election, you're just wrong. rand paul, ted cruz, marco rubio, scott walker, you know, that's -- martin o'malley. joe biden.
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there's a story in "the wall street journal" today joe biden says he might run regardless. this is a huge process. i compare it to an iceberg. the little part that people see above the water, the average voter seize above the water, there's a giant formation below water that's all of the stuff we're talking about now. so look, you cover it if there's news. i think there is news there. she is acting in political ways on a political landscape. i think we all need to write about that. >> amy, what's the first year you can run for class president? is it high school, freshman year? these guys and women show their hand that day, 13 years old. hillary clinton was the star of her graduating class at wellesley. no doubt about it from the beginning before she met this guy named bill from arkansas she had her eye on the prize. this is something that comes with the territory. usually the guys but here we have a woman. by the way, i think the woman's movement behind hillary is bigger than her. i think the reason she will run and maybe win is the power of women my age who want her to be
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president. it's an overwhelming power base that has little or nothing to do with the tactics of her race. your thoughts? >> i think there's definitely that. you also look at the other reasons she's been in the news and her campaign in the news. one of them in new york is anthony weiner and the fact that somebody on her staff, huma abedin, her husband and gets asked about her job might be on the campaign. there are slightly random factors that made it sort of a complicated question for women as well as because it brings up the whole question of the clinton marriage and the choices that she's made. so there's that, too. i'm not sure that it's for women of every age it's overwhelmingly unambiguously exciting to have hillary be the standard bearer for that. >> but i'll talk about women my age i've had to deal with like close to home. i got to tell you that hillary has done so much in her career
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that i think that overwhelms efrgs. everything else. today on "morning joe," chuck todd said there have been unintended consequences of the big hillary clinton push and becoming so visible. we have also joining him is former white house press secretary robert gibbs who made a similar point of "meet the press" yesterday. >> there's lame duck status happens to any second term president in two phases. one is in washington and the ongoing back and forth with congress at some point, you sort of run out of political capital. the president is running up against the clock on that over the next year. but then the second phase, of course, is are you a leader of your own party? at some point, the outgoing president is no longer, you know, sort of is a leader at large but is no longer the rallying point. and if you're barack obama, you want that to start as late as you possibly can. nobody's saying this is what hillary clinton's trying to do
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or anything like that, but this is an unintended consequence and it's going to make it harder for barack obama to stay leader -- to sort of be able to marshal resources. >> i completely agree with chuck. i as a strategist am fairly floored she has decided to enter the public fray so quickly. >> wow. what do you make of that, amy? >> well, it's interesting because, you know, we were at a stage where we were going from bush to clinton to bush and then suddenly we're back at a clinton. it does have the effect of making the obama presidency seem what republicans in one way always hoped it was, an interlude. and it sort of makes it seem like a historical detour. now we're back to the story we already know. and there are advantages to that for her. but there is the sense, chuck is totally right of feeling a little tired and a little early. >> i get the feeling the president's become reactive. i mean, i was once warned don't be reactive, amy.
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stay with you. this idea of spending your life reactively, he gets a bad headline in the "new york times" about the egyptian military going well beyond what they should have done. and all of a sudden he has a press conference the next day. a reaction to editorial writing. that's dangerous when a president begins to be not a case of himself doing what he wants to do, why he was elected to be there, but simply reacting to events. that doesn't look strong. it looks to me mechanical. >> whatever you would say about the clintons, they're not just reactive. protean is a word that was always used about bill clinton. that way of disrupting and changing and setting agenda and tell a new story is something that they have been able to do and that maybe they're distracting obama from really figuring out his own way of doing now. >> you bet, chris, i know you don't bet, broder, one of our great grandfathers told you not to do this because he never predicted either and he was the
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greatest. why do you think joe biden might, this is the way i'm phrasing it, why would he might take on hillary for the nomination fight? if it came to that, knowing he's facing her? >> i think it's simple. he would like to be the president of the united states. i tell people the best indicator whether someone will run or not is have they run before. he's run twice, '87, '88, and 2008. i think he sees -- he is adds close to the job as anyone. he sees and believes in his heart of hearts he's the best person to do the job. my guess, though, chris, is that this is -- i think that joe biden might do it regardless is much more about if hillary doesn't run. i know the speculation is if she run, he might run too. i think the trip he's going to make to iowa next month to be at the tom harkin steak fry is about saying martin o'malley, elizabeth warren, all the other people out there if hillary doesn't run, i'm the top dog if she's not in this race and i'm in this race if she's not in.
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i can't see him ultimately running against hilary in what would amount to basically a one v. one. i don't think any other serious candidate -- >> the way you described it because they run before is a sign they'll run again it's like where do you find a baseball manager in the major leagues? look for somebody fired in the last three or four years. great to to have you on, amy. great magazine, by the way. coming up, stop and frisk. a judge has limited it dramatically and many have criticized it. tonight we'll hear from someone who says that the policy if done right is saving lives. in fact, it's saving the lives of those in tough neighborhoods. he's got the numbers, he says, to prove it. also, a lot of people say the united states should boycott the winter olympic games in russia this winter because of russia's new anti-gay laws. olympic gold medal winner greg louganis joins us tonight to say that's not his suggestion. but next, it's been 50 years
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since martin luther king jr.'s "i have a dream" speech and nearly that long since the passage of the civil rights act in 1964 and now "the butler" a movie based on the man who worked in the white house for eight presidents. i saw it last night. it is quite a movie. cuba gooding pops out so wonderfully is joining us live. and our new time slot, our new viewing habits. you and i together. this is "hardball," the place for politics. when you do what i do, you think about risk. i don't like the ups and downs of the market, but i can't just sit on my cash. i want to be prepared for the long haul. ishares minimum volatility etfs. investments designed for a smoother ride. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.
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san diego mayor bob filner was due to return to city hall today but he didn't show up. some city residents in san diego are taking steps to make sure he goes for good. goes away. yesterday was the first day for recall supporters to collect signatures. they have to collect more than 100,000 in 39 days to move ahead with the recall. anti-filner protests you can see them picketing outside city hall. so far 16 women have come forward to accuse filner of sexual harassment. we'll be right back after this. out there owning it.
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the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. picasso painted one of his master works at 56. doris taerbaum finished her first marathon at 50. not everyone peaks in their twenties. throughout their lives. passion keeps them realizing possibilities. an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and support at aarp.org/possibilities.
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welcome back to "hardball." next week, obviously, marks the 50th anniversary of the march on washington. a seminal event in the civil rights movement, one of the most famous speeches in u.s. history, martin luther king's "i have a dream" speech which i think is the second best speech ever given in this country right up there with lincoln's second inaugural. this weeks starts with a dramatic remind her confident arc of racial relations in this country with lee daniels' "the butler" which debuted at number one in the box office, made $25 million inspired by the life of an african-american white house butler who served from harry truman to ronald reagan over 34 years, spanning some of the most important years of the civil rights movement, starting with the federal troops going into little rock in the '50s. the starring roll in "the butler" is played by forest
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whitaker and cuba gooding. he plays his co-worker in the white house. in this clip, he welcome here's cuba gooding's character welcoming the new kid on the block, forest whitaker to the back rooms of the white house. >> there he is. heard you were coming. what's your name? >> cecil gaines. >> i'm carter wilson, the head butler. don't worry about big mo behind you. this brother in the mirror over here is james holloway, he's my second in command. >> why don't you shake the man's hand first before you start asking difficult questions. >> i want to know where the man's coming from. >> he give you the tour yet? >> he did. >> i might be able to answer that question if carter will stop running his nasty mouth. >> that was lenny kravitz at the basin. joining me right now is academy award winning actor cuba gooding, jr., and director lee daniels. you did it. last night i saw it in d.c. you got one customer and when i
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start selling a movie, i never stop. what i loved about it was the education. are you guys having a conversation without me? let me in on this. >> first off, thank you for all the wonderful things you said about the movie. we love to you death anyway. >> i couldn't hear a thing. >> he couldn't hear a thing. his ear piece -- so i was saying it to him. >> he's repeating what you're saying. i'm helen keller right now. >> here's the story. what i came away from not just the sweetness of the characters, you popped, cuba. you popped out of that room from that first scene. every once in an while, i'm getting down with forest whitaker's character because he's like job. like an old testament character. how much more crap can he take? in history from his kids, from his wife who's cheating on him? how much can he take and he keeps taking it. you have this effervescence and you're enjoying who you are and helping the kid out when he's in trouble secretly from the old man, giving him money but saying give me the money back. it was just a great, snappy character. i want to go back to lee on this question. tell me about your character,
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what it meant to you to play in the white house as a butler behind the scenes but yet a man on top of things? >> it was great because with this particular story, it's easy to make these butlers seem one dimensional and without emotion and life. almost like dehumanize them. they had to be in a room and be invisible in the room. so lenny kravitz and i had a real opportunity to be behind the scenes and just let our hair down, so to speak and to get you know, forest's butler to laugh and just experience life. particularly in those scenes in the house, it was just an opportunity. i mean lee was throwing stuff. threw a parrot at us during one scene. had me doing the james brown and all that, just to show that these were human people so that the audience could connect with them. >> lee, i don't know if you thought about this. i'm a movie nut going back to the '20s movies. john ford might haves. -- movies.
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can you hear me? >> no, he can't hear you. >> maybe you can translate here. here's what i want to know. >> i can hear you. >> black history. this move i reeks of black history. it's a little like forrest gump because the son is playing in selma, he's a black panther, he's everybody, he's everywhere. but the thing that hit me was, black folk in this country, african-americans not people from the caribbean or mixed background like the president, your history in this country is so deep and goes so far back to the beginnings of the colonization of this country. you've seen all the white people performance, you've seen all of us just like you've seen all the presidents. it's a sweeping look at how blacks are the real deep down americans. your history is american history. and that's what grabbed me about that movie last night. >> thank you. i did it originally, i did the film originally because to me it's a father and son love story. and what i found out that when we were doing the -- when we did the bus scene and the woolworth
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scene, the sit-ins, i found out it was deeper than just a father and son love story. that it is an american story. it's the civil rights movement and that the civil rights movement is american history. american history is the civil rights movement. we didn't ask to be brought over here, and we didn't ask for those atrocities to happen to us post us being freed as slaves. it's -- it was a magical experience, a learning experience for me. >> cuba, what you could see as an african-american, just as an american you can see the way blacks have to talk to white people. you know, because the white people maybe have power in situations and you have to put up with the bs, if you will of acting a certain way like you're happy when you're not, is your subservient when you don't feel subservient. what did that mean to you as you learn the way the movie is portraying the black experience of living in two ways, the white
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way you have to show yourself and the real family and friend way you behave. >> i got to be honest with you, chris. when i read this script, i thought that that was such a powerful mechanism to use to show the civil rights era. not an opinionated biased approach but an open approach splang two ideologies, one being representative of the teachings of dr. martin luther king, where we should be representative of a people -- accessible as a people and professional and act eloquently and speak eloquently. and then you had the other teachings of malcolm x who said by any means necessary we will get the respect that we deserve until he later changed his views. but this film seems to encompass both of these trains of thought through the relationship that is specific between the cecil gaines character and his son.
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and it was interesting because it wasn't just about race. it was about a parent and a son growing and evolving in their relationship. and one -- you know, all the misunderstandings and misgivings that we all have with our teenage children and how we have to give them the tools for them to be, you know, independent and strong and fierce and at the same time not be too overbearing on our own opinions on what they believe. and i think that's what's so beautiful about this movie is the statement is it opens a dialogue so that kids today can learn what we as americans, white and black, fought and struggled for during the sit-ins, during the freedom rider bus situations. and how we were -- we've been enriched by americans because of that experience and, you know, like i've been saying in all these interviews, we travel foreign a lot. and the american brand has been beaten up and if they knew where
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we have come from as a people, they'd understand that president barack obama is a natural progression of things to have a black president of such a wonderful nation. >> lee daniels, congratulations. i hope this movie wins every weekend for the next three months. i got to tell you, i'll never know what it's like to be black. >> come on, chris. >> this movie gives you a hint, a hint of what you think it might be like because it's so rich and because it's conflicting. you got oprah winfrey who was wonderful in this movie doing cheating, drinking too much. she straightened herself out at one point. she stopped drinking, staying faithful to her husband later on. a mixed person with problems. the young good looking woman who is not a good person. you've got the son who's a mixed bag. the other son is this loyal american that gets killed in vietnam. there's so much richness to the story. it's about people and about our country. you should be so proud. >> chris, what i've learned is that what i walked away from
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this film was that -- it wasn't as an african-american you think we as black people were the only people that experienced the civil rights movement. but there were so many white people just as many that were killed trying to help america with the civil rights movement. that was my learning experience from it and i hope everybody will walk away with that too. >> two of those three guys burned alive are white. thank you, cuba gooding. you're going to get an oscar nomination. oh, you are going to get one. >> we're already dealing with one in the movie and that's oprah. back off a little bit. >> she's going to win one too but the other guy, whitaker, is going to get the big one. thank you. lee daniels, great work. fabulous historic work. up next, it's america's biggest yard sale and if you ever wanted a souvenir from the war in afghanistan now is your chance. if you want a humvee and an important programming note. starting next monday, one week from today, catch "hardball" exclusively at 7:00 eastern. no more 5:00. for those of you watching at 5:00 eastern, next week you need
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to tune in at 7:00. don't worry, i'm going to keep reminding you all this week about that. we're going exclusively at 7:00 eastern. so we're going to have to share some time at a different time. anyway, that's "hardball." i'm "hardball." it's the place for politics. did. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors, where i can go ask for personal recommendations. that's the idea. before you have any work done, check angie's list. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. i love you, angie. sorry, honey. because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet.
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back to "hardball." and time for "the sideshow". if you've ever dreamed of taking a joyride around the neighborhood in a camouflaged five-to know cargo truck, now's your chance. $50 billion worth of military hardware used over the last 14 years in afghanistan will be coming home over the next 16 months. believe it or not, some of it can be yours at gov liquidation.com. there it is. it's like ebay for the department of defense. the site publicly auctions everything from aircraft parts and cranes to vending machines
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and household appliances. it's made more than $500 million for the department of defense as of 2011. but the drawdown in afghanistan which is the largest pullout in the american history means they'll have a lot more inventory in the coming months. next up, a san diego radio show took to the skies to send a not-so-subtle message to besieged mayor, bob filner. surrender it said. he's refused to resign and now facing a recall effort. the sky writing as an homage to the famous scene from "the wizard of oz." nobody expects a happy outcome in this case. catch this. u.s. senator ted cruz released his birth certificate on sunday to prove to naysayers that he is indeed a natural-born citizen. but according to the "dallas morning news" he may also be a canadian citizen as welt. after consulting with canadian legal scholars the paper reported "born in canada to an
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american mother, ted cruz became an instant u.s. citizen but under under canadian law he also became a citizen of that country the moment he was born there." unless the texas senator formally renounces his citizenship, he will remain a citizen of both countries. legal experts say, well, that means he could assert the right to vote in canada or even run for parliament up there. while dual citizenship doesn't preclude the senator from becoming president in this country, he's asserting that he's not, he says, a canadian citizen. they say differently. up next, stop and frisk. yes, it's controversial, but does it work? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. favoritete e! people wait for this promotion all year long. and now there are endless ways to love it... from crispy to spicy to savory. [ man ] you cannot make a bad choice. [ male announcer ] red lobster's endless shrimp! as much as you like, any way you like! you can have your shrimp. and you can eat it, too. [ male announcer ] try our new soy wasabi grilled shrimp or classic garlic shrimp scampi.
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here's what's happening. egypt's ex-president, hosni mubarak, could be released from jail later this week. the move threatens to spark even more violence in that country.
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a massive wildfire in idaho has now torched more than 104,000 acres and is still spreading. it is only 9% contained. and new jersey chris christie signed a ban banning conversion therapy for gay teenagers, back to "hardball." i actually thought that bill thompson said it right. bill said he didn't like stop and frisk but he had a son he wanted to make sure the kid didn't get killed. the only way is to get guns off the streets. this is not just an academic exercise. this is people getting killed and sadly, unfortunately, we all see it again and again and again. it's the same group of people, young minority males and that just devastating that society. we've got to do something about it. >> welcome back to "hardball." talk about a tough subject, that was new york mayor michael bloomberg speaking earlier today
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making reference to bill thompson, an african-american democrat running for mayor right now who's taking a somewhat moderate position on the city's stop and frisk law. a couple candidates are trying to find the middle. his remarks came today at a press conference where he announced a massive sting operation. it resulted in the largest seizure of guns in new york's history. the shakedown comes as he continues to defend the city's controversial implementation of its stop and frisk program which the mayor argues that's bloomberg has made the city safer by taking guns like these guns they picked up in stop and frisk. a federal judge ruled the tactics were unconstitutionally targeting blacks and minorities in the courts right now. bloomberg was livid when the ruling came out last week. he's filing an appeal and continues to plead his case. not just with new yorkers but obviously the country. in today's "washington post," he spells out in a big editorial plainly stop and frisk is not racial profiling. unlike many cities where wealthy areas get special treatment, the nypd targets its manpower to the
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areas that suffer the highest crime levels. 90% of all those who commit the murders and other violent crimes are black and hispanic. it is shameful so many elected officials and editorial writers have been largely silent on these facts. when it comes to policing, political correctness is deadly. bill bratton is now an msnbc analyst and eugene robinson is a pulitzer prize-winning columnist for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. unlike other people, i'm going to try to find the way to good security in this country, people who love our cities, mr. commissioner, who love walking the streets of our cities in nighttime and in day and would like to walk to as many neighborhoods as they could at night without fear of death or mugging or something else. i believe police have a responsibility. i want the honest police officer man or woman, white, black, hispanic, latina or latino to do their job. my question is this, police are
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not scarecrows and don't just walk around in uniforms and nice hats and do their jobs by simply showing up. they have to take action, pro action to prevent crime. what's an appropriate role for a police officer if he sees people in his sights that he believes are out for trouble. nerts in other words, let's take the champl of a gang that has just suffered a hit and he thinks that gang is kwoeg ogoin for revenge that night. what's the proper role to prevent that crime? >> you would want it your officers to be cops, what cops are paid to do which is to go in harm's way. if they see something that rises to the level of a suspicion that a crime has been, is, or may be about to be committed, you want them to do something. you don't want them to do as they did in los angeles in 2001 and 2002 prior to my going there as chief of police, drive by and wave. and with the result a significant increase in crime. you want your cops to be assertive and active.
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but you also want them to be respectful. you want them to be mindful of the law, not break it to enforce it and you want them to in all neighborhoods of the city be the same, not behave differently in a minority neighborhood than you would in a white neighborhood. >> just to stay on that subject, like we do at airports, and i know gene and i have been in many airport situations where it looks hideously stupid. i've said before it's like lords where they expect people in wheelchairs to stand up and walk 30 feet to go through the turnstyle. i go why are they doing this to an older woman? they don't want to be prejudiced to people who look middle eastern. we know that story. but on the streets, would you stop four or five business guys coming out for lunch to see if they're carrying? would you do that in order for the optics? would you do that if you were commissioner of new york today to keep it consistent, as you say? >> you would not want your police officers to do that either absent something that atracks the attention of that
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individual to the police officer or the police officer attracted to them. and again, the supreme court has basically laid this out with a clear line that you can't go over. that you have to have a reasonable suspicion. and that's defined in the law and defined in -- >> i want gene's reaction to what you've said so far. >> i actually agree with the commissioner that you want police officers to be proactive. i think what the judge said in this case was that this policy, the way the policy is being done in new york, violates equal protection. it's not the same in all the neighborhoods of the city the way the commissioner said it should be. and you know, once you look at the figures, you look what's happened with stop and frisk, there's interesting things that jump out. one thing that jumps out at me, for 2012, 86% of those stopped were black and hispanic. in only 2% of those cases did they find any weapon at all on the person. 2% of the cases in which they
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frisked. but of the few whites who got frisked, in 4% of those cases they found weapons. that tells me there's something not bright about the way it's being done. that you're actually -- >> what do you think is at work here as a columnist and a person who covers social life in this country, what do you think is the motivation for the police to stop these usually young men, let's be blunt about it, minorities? why are they doing it, to harass them or what? >> i can't look into their minds. i think there's some genuine good police work going on. there's some element i think of keeping a neighborhood under control. look, it doesn't -- that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that it's not done in other neighborhoods and that in fact, the number one thing, the number one offense that gets alleged or charged after stop and frisk is marijuana offenses. so that makes it a victim of crime on wall street but not --
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>> i'm with you, my friend, on that. is there any way you can stop and frisk for weapons and leave it at that, mr. commissioner? because it seems to me, we have a general public interest in not having guns on the street. that's why people have problems with stand your ground laws, why people walk around with guns. >> one of the reasons there's been so much resistance to the policies of mayor bloomberg is unfortunately, because of his focus, his well-intended focus on the issue of guns. he has created the impression that the reason that stop and frisk is practiced in new york city is to get guns off the street. that is one of the results, if you will, but stop and frisk is used for everything. if i stop you for a traffic violation, for drinking beer in an open container, it isn't intended to get guns off the street unless you specifically see a gun. the idea is stop and frisk is the basic tool of american policing. and so much of the resistance to what's going on in new york is
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around the idea that, well, geez, 600,000 stops but only 700 guns, isn't that really overkill, if you will, to get those guns? so it's -- we're talking past each other, unfortunately, on this situation. >> gene? >> yeah, and that's a problem, frankly, of the mayor's creation. the mayor keeps saying it's to get the guns off the street. >> it's not. >> so if he keeps setting that as the bar, people are going to say -- >> it confused me because i thought it was that too. >> that's what he said. i think you can get around the fourth amendment questions of unreasonable search and seizure. i think the 14th amendment questions of equal protection are more difficult, but they're easily solved. would it kill them to stop some white guys. would it kill them? >> i wish we had the technology where a police officer could have a scanner and find out if they're carrying. some day we'll have that. commissioner bratton, thank you sir.
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it's a decent argument. we're trying to find the truth here. eugene robinson, as always. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards. and with the fidelity cash management account debit card, you get reimbursed for all atm fees. is that it? oh, this guy, too. turn more of the money you spend into money you invest. it's everyday reinvesting for your personal economy. every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.
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take the next step. talk to your doctor. cymbalta can help. so, if you're sleeping in your contact lenses, what you wear to bed is your business. ask about the air optix® contacts so breathable they're approved for up to 30 nights of continuous wear. serious eye problems may occur. ask your doctor and visit airoptix.com for safety information and a free one-month trial. i've sent a message today to the united states olympic committee, spelling out my own position. that unless the soviets withdraw their troops within a month from afghanistan, that the olympic games be moved from moscow to an alternate site or multiple sites, or postponed or canceled. >> that was president jimmy carton, of course, on nbc's "meet the press" in '80 announcing plans to boycott the summer olympics held that year that summer in moscow unless the
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seefout union withdrew its troops from afghanistan. carter went through with his promise to boycott. american athletes did not participate in the summer olympic games and the soviets boycotted the summer games in l.a. the cold war is is over. when russia announced itself anti-gay law, applied during the games during this summer, winter, rather, gay rights and human rights activists turned their focus to protesting the 2014 olympics in russia. the law, by the way, allows for the finding and detaining of anyone deemed to, i don't know what this means, to promote h o homosexuality to children under the age of 18. is boycotting the games the solution? president obama said he's opposed to a boycott. joining me, somebody who ought to know about this, former four time olympic gold medalist grag louganis, a diver. it's great to have you on. by the way -- >> it's great to be on. >> you know how that started? robert kaiser, a great reporter for the "washington post," columnist at the time, wrote a
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column saying we should boycott the olympics over the invasion of afghanistan. walter mondale, the vice president saw the article that morning, took it to jimmy carter, the president, who i was working for as a speechwriter and said, let's do. i think we have to be careful about these things. your thoughts. you're an athlete. your life, your career, your greatness comes from being able to compete. should we stop our young people from being able to compete because we don't like an ordinaordina ordinance in the russian government we don't like? >> right. >> your thoughts. >> i did compete in the 1976 olympic games in montreal and had that opportunity, silver medalist there. 1980, i was one of the team captains of the 1980 olympic team for our dive team. what we wanted to do is go over there, send one person into the opening ceremonies then all the rest of the athletes stay at home in protest of the soviet union's invasion of afghanistan but still have a presence there.
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and we had a really strong team. and, you know what, an athlete, an elite athlete has a shelf life. you know, i was fortunate. i was able to continue competing through '84, through '88. and i was on both sides of two boycotts. so i -- you know, i was very blessed in that way. but not all athletes have that opportunity. >> so what's the right way for people, gay and straight in this country, to say we don't like your stupid law? i don't even, by way, i mean, i don't want to be sarcastic about this. i don't know what it means to promote homosexuality. it's nature. you can argue about it. something like an advertising campaign isn't going to change your orientation. >> exactly. >> it seems to me. >> i would be a walking propaganda, myself, personally. i'm a gay man. i'm also hiv positive, but i'm also an athlete, too. so, you know, i'm totally
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against the -- >> what's the right smart american way to give an -- evolutionary values on this? i must say our values have changed, as you know, personally. so here we are, 20 or 30 years ahead of the russian people. what do we do to get them to catch up? how do we hit them hard or kiss them right way, whatever it takes to get them to change? >> i don't know if we're going to kiss them the right way. i don't know what's that about. >> it's not about anything. go ahead. >> so, but, you know, i think it would be wonderful for our athletes to go over there. you know, gay or straight. you know, and if they're sympathetic to the cause, i mean, because there are other untris involved here. there's denmark, there's the uk, there's sweden. >> how about a black power salutes at the olympics years ago where the black athletes did compete in the track and field but did put their fists up with the gloves on sometimes. >> they did. >> should something like that happen in russia this winter? >> you know, i don't know if it needs to be all that overt, either. i mean, if all our allies were
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to dedicate their performance to their gay uncles, son, daughters -- >> to make it individual. >> to make it individual because, you know, it personally says a story that they're in support of their gay family. >> we're out of time. you've got the standing to make that proposal. thank you so much for doing it here. greg louganis. >> my pleasure. >> we'll be right back. at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what?
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let me finish tonight with this.
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i want to conclude the show tonight with a big ask. starting next monday, that's next monday, "hardball," the show of my dreams, will be on at 7:00 eastern. that's every night monday through friday at 7:00 eastern, not at 5:00. so what my big ask is, that you adjust your evening ritual. believe me i know it's a sweet time of day, to share company with me at 7:00. it's going to be one hour to share our points of view on what's happening in the country. i know from experience and from the political world in which i've lived the importance of asking. you ask to borrow the car from your dad, you ask a girl to a date, you ask someone to marry you. ultimately if you're lucky, you ask. now i'm asking you. i'd really appreciate you to share your time with me starting as soon as possible for you at 7:00. i'll have the news, i'll have the analysis, i'll have my attitude, as we say in philly, my attitude, my passion to make this a better country. with you aboard sharing your good time with me, we're going to keep trying to get it right.
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and oh, yeah, what i say to everyone who's kind enough to say hello to me when i'm on vacation, when you bump into me in d.c. or new york or philly, or somewhere else, it's this. thanks for being part of all this. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in," it's all-out war in the battle over the policy of racial profiling, known as stop and frisk. ben jealous of the naacp will be here in just a moment. also tonight, chris christie's wild weekend. on friday night the governor went hard right then he came back today, a monday morning moderate. we see what you're doing, chris christie. plus, if you're into secret government documents acknowledging stuff you sort of already maybe thought you knew, it's been a cool few days. last week we saw an acknowledgement that area 51 exist and this weekend an acknowledgement the

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Hardball With Chris Matthews
MSNBC August 19, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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